with Will Oldham
I’m curious what you’ve personally been enjoying. What’s been keeping you interested and engaged in this bleak world?
WO – I read a lot. I usually have three books going at any given time that I’ll read at different times of the day. I have a beginning of the day book, a middle of the day book and an end of the day book, or something like that. I don’t spend a lot of time looking at things online.
It must be exciting to be enthralled in three different worlds on any given day and have that curiosity drive your mind, minute by minute.
WO – Exactly. I have a good friend who’s a farmer. He makes his living as an organic vegetable farmer but he kind of has a passion for weed and for approaching it with a lot of respect for the cultural and cultivation history of marijuana. Early on I wrote to him and said “I know you’re doing this work. Would you consider periodically sharing strains you’re interested in and I’ll incorporate it into a songwriting process.” He was thrilled with the idea. And that became something. I was straight edge until I was 19 or something like that, and even then I liked to drink alcohol. I wasn’t into pot.
Were those songs ever released?
WO – Some of the songs on this record were born out of that. It was kind of a collaboration. At one point when he was able to travel -- he came to an agricultural conference in Kentucky. But he dropped by and came with 19 different strains he was working on and gave them as a gift. That was a year and a half ago, and I’m still not a huge pothead. I haven’t been able to try all 19 strains because one mason jar would last me five years. They’re old and dry now but they’re still really incredible. My first fantasy was that I would try to work on a song exclusively under the strain. It was really fascinating and incredibly productive, which is also nice because you don’t usually associate potheads as high functioning or productive.
What’s the status on marijuana legalization in Kentucky?
WO – I think they’ve maybe started to pass some rules on legalization? We’re ending legislative sessions today and I think there was something passed. I also learned recently that our backwards and conservative Legislature accidentally passed laws to allow edible Delta 9 in Kentucky, which as I’m told is the same psycho-active power in THC. And so you can go to stores now and buy edibles, you just can’t buy flower.
It speaks a lot to how little they pay attention.
WO – It’s also how little they know. We’re getting a lot of publicity in Kentucky for passing this anti-trans bill, which I think is one of the most discriminatory in the country. And the governor, who seems to be a wonderful man, vetoed it and they overruled the veto yesterday or the day before. I don’t think they even know what they’re doing most of the time because they’re behaving in such a reactionary manner that they think they should follow their instincts rather than taking a moment to learn.
I did want to play a game before you go. How many albums have you released under the Bonnie ‘Prince’ Billy moniker?
WO – I’m not sure. I wouldn’t even know how to count them.
WO – I read a lot. I usually have three books going at any given time that I’ll read at different times of the day. I have a beginning of the day book, a middle of the day book and an end of the day book, or something like that. I don’t spend a lot of time looking at things online.
It must be exciting to be enthralled in three different worlds on any given day and have that curiosity drive your mind, minute by minute.
WO – Exactly. I have a good friend who’s a farmer. He makes his living as an organic vegetable farmer but he kind of has a passion for weed and for approaching it with a lot of respect for the cultural and cultivation history of marijuana. Early on I wrote to him and said “I know you’re doing this work. Would you consider periodically sharing strains you’re interested in and I’ll incorporate it into a songwriting process.” He was thrilled with the idea. And that became something. I was straight edge until I was 19 or something like that, and even then I liked to drink alcohol. I wasn’t into pot.
Were those songs ever released?
WO – Some of the songs on this record were born out of that. It was kind of a collaboration. At one point when he was able to travel -- he came to an agricultural conference in Kentucky. But he dropped by and came with 19 different strains he was working on and gave them as a gift. That was a year and a half ago, and I’m still not a huge pothead. I haven’t been able to try all 19 strains because one mason jar would last me five years. They’re old and dry now but they’re still really incredible. My first fantasy was that I would try to work on a song exclusively under the strain. It was really fascinating and incredibly productive, which is also nice because you don’t usually associate potheads as high functioning or productive.
What’s the status on marijuana legalization in Kentucky?
WO – I think they’ve maybe started to pass some rules on legalization? We’re ending legislative sessions today and I think there was something passed. I also learned recently that our backwards and conservative Legislature accidentally passed laws to allow edible Delta 9 in Kentucky, which as I’m told is the same psycho-active power in THC. And so you can go to stores now and buy edibles, you just can’t buy flower.
It speaks a lot to how little they pay attention.
WO – It’s also how little they know. We’re getting a lot of publicity in Kentucky for passing this anti-trans bill, which I think is one of the most discriminatory in the country. And the governor, who seems to be a wonderful man, vetoed it and they overruled the veto yesterday or the day before. I don’t think they even know what they’re doing most of the time because they’re behaving in such a reactionary manner that they think they should follow their instincts rather than taking a moment to learn.
I did want to play a game before you go. How many albums have you released under the Bonnie ‘Prince’ Billy moniker?
WO – I’m not sure. I wouldn’t even know how to count them.
What do you think my favorite album is?
WO – Oh, goodness. Let me think. I don’t know, tell me.
I’m a big fan of “Master and Everyone.” Has that been your most-listened to BPB album?
WO – I don’t know. I made that with this guy Mark Nevers and I feel like we’re going to make another record in a year or something like that. And Rian Murphy, who is the silent partner of the three guys that run Drag City -- he wrote something and said, “Keeping Secrets Will Destroy You” it makes him think of “Master and Everyone” having a bastard baby with “The Letting Go.”
Where was your headspace with that record as far as what you were trying to accomplish, the amount of songs you had or how you were even writing?
WO – That record, kind of very similar to this new record, began as I think we had made “Ease Down the Road” at my brother’s studio at Shelbyville, Kentucky. If anything works at all making a record, I try to hold on to those things as I make the next record and it usually fails. So we went into “Master And Everyone” trying to build a record in the way that we built “Ease Down the Road” and it didn’t work. I knew my friend David Burman had had some really productive time with this guy Mark Nevers in Nashville. So literally standing among the ashes of the ruins attempting to make “Master and Everyone” I called Nevers and just said “David said I should call you. When do you have time?” and he’s like, “you can come down in a few days.” I went down there and made the record with a sense of desperation. I don’t know anything but the songs exist and they’ve existed for a while and I’ve worked on them. I was so close to them that I kept for about six months sequencing it as a six-song EP. Playing it finally for a few people, each person had strong reactions saying “what are you thinking? What’s wrong with this? You should just put it out.” So I put it out on faith because I couldn’t hear it anymore. All I could see were all the seams and the patches and all the work that went into it. I couldn’t hear it for its music. That’s where I’m at actually right now with this new record. I think it is a real record, but right now it doesn’t sound that way to me. It’s kind of like when Springsteen released “Nebraska.” At a certain point, regardless of shape, you kind of have to let the music out and let things be and not think too much of how it will turn out.
WO – Exactly. It’s putting a lot of faith and a lot of trust, and knowing that for Springsteen and for myself -- it’s one of the very few things we have in common -- the audience is massively responsible for determining the value of any given piece of work. Somewhere in a cardboard box I have two CDs of Springsteen outtakes of the 4 track stuff. There’s a lot of good music on there. Since I was a kid I’ve always been confused at how little Nebraska moved me, but when I heard all these songs -- including a lot of songs that were done in this reverbed lonely four-track arrangement -- it’s exciting music. He decided many times which road he was going to take, and usually he would take a road that would take him away from anything that I would be interested in. At many points he could have been my kind of artist, but instead he decided to be the artist for millions of other people.
WO – Oh, goodness. Let me think. I don’t know, tell me.
I’m a big fan of “Master and Everyone.” Has that been your most-listened to BPB album?
WO – I don’t know. I made that with this guy Mark Nevers and I feel like we’re going to make another record in a year or something like that. And Rian Murphy, who is the silent partner of the three guys that run Drag City -- he wrote something and said, “Keeping Secrets Will Destroy You” it makes him think of “Master and Everyone” having a bastard baby with “The Letting Go.”
Where was your headspace with that record as far as what you were trying to accomplish, the amount of songs you had or how you were even writing?
WO – That record, kind of very similar to this new record, began as I think we had made “Ease Down the Road” at my brother’s studio at Shelbyville, Kentucky. If anything works at all making a record, I try to hold on to those things as I make the next record and it usually fails. So we went into “Master And Everyone” trying to build a record in the way that we built “Ease Down the Road” and it didn’t work. I knew my friend David Burman had had some really productive time with this guy Mark Nevers in Nashville. So literally standing among the ashes of the ruins attempting to make “Master and Everyone” I called Nevers and just said “David said I should call you. When do you have time?” and he’s like, “you can come down in a few days.” I went down there and made the record with a sense of desperation. I don’t know anything but the songs exist and they’ve existed for a while and I’ve worked on them. I was so close to them that I kept for about six months sequencing it as a six-song EP. Playing it finally for a few people, each person had strong reactions saying “what are you thinking? What’s wrong with this? You should just put it out.” So I put it out on faith because I couldn’t hear it anymore. All I could see were all the seams and the patches and all the work that went into it. I couldn’t hear it for its music. That’s where I’m at actually right now with this new record. I think it is a real record, but right now it doesn’t sound that way to me. It’s kind of like when Springsteen released “Nebraska.” At a certain point, regardless of shape, you kind of have to let the music out and let things be and not think too much of how it will turn out.
WO – Exactly. It’s putting a lot of faith and a lot of trust, and knowing that for Springsteen and for myself -- it’s one of the very few things we have in common -- the audience is massively responsible for determining the value of any given piece of work. Somewhere in a cardboard box I have two CDs of Springsteen outtakes of the 4 track stuff. There’s a lot of good music on there. Since I was a kid I’ve always been confused at how little Nebraska moved me, but when I heard all these songs -- including a lot of songs that were done in this reverbed lonely four-track arrangement -- it’s exciting music. He decided many times which road he was going to take, and usually he would take a road that would take him away from anything that I would be interested in. At many points he could have been my kind of artist, but instead he decided to be the artist for millions of other people.
Interview Eric Rosane
Photography Urban Wyatt
Excerpt from Issue No. 4 (2023). Read the full interview by ordering your copy here.