with Ex-Members of the Heaven’s Gate Cult
During their later years, didn’t Heaven’s Gate members operate a web programming and graphic design firm called Higher Source? When exactly was it established?
Srfody – Higher Source lasted from April 1996 to February, 1997. About 9 months. It brought us funding in the final days.
Do you remember how many members of Heaven's Gate were efficient in computer programming?
Swyody – We started getting into computer jobs in the 1980s. At that time Mllody had gone to school before joining the group and was a COBAL programmer. Nrrody wasn’t a programmer but a technical writing major.
A lot of us were working at restaurants but Ti and Do didn’t like that because our schedules were all so crazy that they could never really get together with all of us when they wanted to for a meeting. So they encouraged us to try to find more of an office job, like a nine-to-five kind of thing.
At that point, they bought a computer, it was an Apple IIe, I think it was which Srrody and I gravitated to—he became skilled in assembler and C programming, while I learned multiple languages. I started with data entry and office roles, coding on the side, and eventually secured contracts. Srrody and I formed two companies, Think Link and Word Wise, and I trained others, including Chkody, Glnody, and possibly Stmody, all among the 38 members.
After you’d finish your nine-to-five and return with the rest of the members what was your schedule like?
Swyody – It depended on Ti and Do. They decided when to have a meeting. Weekends a lot of times were when we had meetings.
Were the meetings routine?
Swyody – No, no, there's no routine to it, there was no schedule or anything. If Ti and Do weren't living in the same place with us, then they would just make a phone call and say they’ll be over in a few minutes and to get ready to have a meeting. We'd all stop what we're doing and do that.
Which member created the Heaven’s Gate logo? Did it come before or after establishing Higher Source?
Mrcody – Ollody and Do created the Heaven’s Gate logo in March 1996, before Higher Source existed.
From the entirety of Heaven’s Gate’s existence how many members were there?
Swyody – From Heaven’s Gate’s beginning in 1975, many followed for days or weeks, but by May 1976, after Ti declared the harvest closed, about 100 students gathered in Wyoming. The team separated 19 of those students and told the remaining ones that we made the first cut. The numbers went down pretty quickly from there. People would leave in the middle of the night, some ended up coming back years later, through different circumstances. When somebody left, they didn't know how to find us, because we didn't leave a trail. The FBI was looking for Ti and Do at one point. Different families hired investigators to find us to try to deprogram us even though everybody was an adult. Ti and Do would always be a step ahead of them.
In 1993 when the Beyond Human series was put up on the satellite dish people were able to write to us and rejoin. So our numbers increased from 24 back up to 36 at that point. And then we got another dozen or more through the 1994 public meetings that we did. And a few others came in, because they were related to somebody that had left the classroom.
Ti and Do had the members on a strict diet, would you consider that as controlling?
Swyody – There were many procedures, including dietary ones, but it wasn’t controlling because we didn’t have to stay. People could leave or even cheat on the diet, and while that happened occasionally, there was no punishment.
In the beginning, they gave us money to buy our own food and advised us to make it last a week and avoid buying anything that spoils, but people did anyway. Eventually, Ti and Do started buying all the food, which could seem controlling since we couldn’t just drive off to Pizza Hut or something. They didn't want somebody to decide to leave the group and take one of our cars so they would definitely keep the keys under, you know, lock and key, so to speak
The diet evolved with individual input. Initially, we followed Ti’s version of the Pritikin diet, which was low in meat—typically bacon and eggs or barbecue chicken legs twice a week, with the rest of the meals being rice, beans, or spaghetti. Later, we switched to liquid protein “pink drinks,” mixed in the juice lab with supplements like lecithin, consumed every two hours.
If someone had issues, they could report it to Do, and adjustments were made. For instance, during the pink drinks phase, I developed severe vertigo, which led them to add yeast rolls to the diet, I guess my vehicle needed that carbohydrate.
That adjustment to the diet was an example of how they tailored it based on a student’s needs. The purpose of the Transfiguration diet was longevity—to keep our vehicles as healthy as possible for as long as we needed them. It wasn’t about wanting to stay here; most students didn’t think that way. Personally, I had no reason to leave, though I always knew it was part of the plan. I didn’t desire that outcome, except through my spiritual programming.
Dying doesn’t contribute to growth. Our vehicles are essential for learning lessons and standing up for Ti and Do. Sharing their truth requires being present, even as it becomes increasingly unpopular.
Now that Ti and Do are gone what is your mission?
Swyody – My entire life is dedicated to what I’m doing with you now. I spend a lot of time studying current events, and I find that Ti and Do’s teachings resonate with much of what's happening today. Ti and Do weren’t averse to discussing current events. While we didn’t focus on them extensively, politically, they had us follow Ross Perot. I remember Ti saying that having a businessperson as president might be beneficial, as running the country like a business, rather than a political game, could do it some good.
What are your thoughts on Donald Trump then?
Swyody – I couldn’t imagine voting for him, and I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Hillary Clinton either, so I sat out both elections. I just couldn’t find anyone I liked. I did have some admiration for Bernie Sanders, even working on his Senate campaign for a while. However, his stance on global warming—claiming that humans caused climate change and could fix it—struck me as delusional. I firmly believe that the Next Level is in control of the weather on this planet. I have no doubt about that.
What happens when your vehicle dies? Is the a plan to maintain the Heaven’s Gate website?
Mrcody – Yes, there is a plan.
Have you remained in contact with any other ex-members who didn’t leave their vehicles? From what I understand, it seems like many ex-members don’t agree with each other now that Ti and Do are gone.
Swyody – I consider all these individuals my family. I love them for the shared experiences we had, but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything they say or do. I stay in touch when I choose to. Hvvody has never wanted to be public, and when I last spoke with him several years ago, he didn’t know what he believed about Ti and Do. I don’t judge people; it’s not my place. If he reaches out or if we have a reason to communicate, we do.
I feel the same way about Lee Anne. She may appear in an upcoming documentary by ABC News, as she interviewed for it. She was also in earlier documentaries, mentioning issues like the lack of dental care. I find it interesting that some former members who didn’t fully believe in Ti and Do focus on that. Personally, I received plenty of dental care, including partials, and had most of my teeth removed. Do explained my bad teeth as being from the water on Long Island, not from drug use.
I did use marijuana, hashish, acid, mescaline, and mushrooms in my youth, but nothing that would cause severe tooth decay. Now, I only use marijuana occasionally, mainly for energy. A year ago, I’d play the drums for fun and exercise, but now I only feel like doing it if I smoke a little weed first.
Mrcody – Yes, there is a plan.
Have you remained in contact with any other ex-members who didn’t leave their vehicles? From what I understand, it seems like many ex-members don’t agree with each other now that Ti and Do are gone.
Swyody – I consider all these individuals my family. I love them for the shared experiences we had, but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything they say or do. I stay in touch when I choose to. Hvvody has never wanted to be public, and when I last spoke with him several years ago, he didn’t know what he believed about Ti and Do. I don’t judge people; it’s not my place. If he reaches out or if we have a reason to communicate, we do.
I feel the same way about Lee Anne. She may appear in an upcoming documentary by ABC News, as she interviewed for it. She was also in earlier documentaries, mentioning issues like the lack of dental care. I find it interesting that some former members who didn’t fully believe in Ti and Do focus on that. Personally, I received plenty of dental care, including partials, and had most of my teeth removed. Do explained my bad teeth as being from the water on Long Island, not from drug use.
I did use marijuana, hashish, acid, mescaline, and mushrooms in my youth, but nothing that would cause severe tooth decay. Now, I only use marijuana occasionally, mainly for energy. A year ago, I’d play the drums for fun and exercise, but now I only feel like doing it if I smoke a little weed first.
Dental care? How did that work?
Swyody – It was during Ti's time in her vehicle, back in the mid '80s. I had tooth pain, so they sent me to the dentist. They would extract teeth as needed, and the dentist made partials for me—both upper and lower—filling in gaps where I had lost teeth. The goal was to ensure that I could choose how I looked, and they also wanted to make sure that people's smiles weren’t negatively affected.
Swyody – It was during Ti's time in her vehicle, back in the mid '80s. I had tooth pain, so they sent me to the dentist. They would extract teeth as needed, and the dentist made partials for me—both upper and lower—filling in gaps where I had lost teeth. The goal was to ensure that I could choose how I looked, and they also wanted to make sure that people's smiles weren’t negatively affected.
Was there any specific reason for the dental care?
Swyody – I’m not sure, but I had quite a bit of dental work done, including fillings. All the members received dental care too.
They did?
Swyody – Yes. For example, Samody received dental care for a while, but Ti and Do eventually suggested she have all her teeth removed and get dentures, which she did. She was part of the 38. Then, Prkody left in 1992 or 1993 and had gum disease. He went to the dentist several times for treatments. I know others went to the dentist too, but I can’t recall specifics right now.
Swyody – I’m not sure, but I had quite a bit of dental work done, including fillings. All the members received dental care too.
They did?
Swyody – Yes. For example, Samody received dental care for a while, but Ti and Do eventually suggested she have all her teeth removed and get dentures, which she did. She was part of the 38. Then, Prkody left in 1992 or 1993 and had gum disease. He went to the dentist several times for treatments. I know others went to the dentist too, but I can’t recall specifics right now.
How old were you when you joined the group, and where did you fall in terms of age compared to the other members?
Swyody – I was 24 when I joined on September 14, 1975. Most of the members were around the same age or younger, but there were a few who were much older
Why do you think Heaven’s Gate appealed to people your age?
Swyody – Age had something to do with it—it made certain challenges easier to overcome or already behind us. Most people my age left due to things like sensuality, as they were in the prime of their vehicle's reproductive age.
How did drugs fit into this? You mentioned using psychedelics. Were they ever a temptation for you or others?
Swyody – I'm not sure how much of an issue it was for those who stayed long-term, but in early 1976, after nine months of public meetings, we were gathered in Wyoming. Ti and Do found out that some people were still using marijuana and having sex, even though we were supposed to avoid that. My friend Ron, who I joined with in Newport, Oregon, was one of those who still used. Ti and Do addressed the issue, saying that having a clear mind was essential to being a student in the classroom. After that, some people left. Some lost contact, but a few made their way back. The topic came up again when I received a book called I Can’t Believe That But You Must. Ti initially thought that recreational drug use, like LSD, could help open people's minds, but she crossed that out a year later during editing.
Do you think your own use of LSD and other psychedelics helped prepare you for Heaven’s Gate?
Swyody – No, I don’t think it had any real effect on me. There wasn’t any logical reason why I joined. If I wanted to take a ride on a UFO, maybe psychedelics might have seemed helpful for that, but not for anything else.
Swyody – I was 24 when I joined on September 14, 1975. Most of the members were around the same age or younger, but there were a few who were much older
Why do you think Heaven’s Gate appealed to people your age?
Swyody – Age had something to do with it—it made certain challenges easier to overcome or already behind us. Most people my age left due to things like sensuality, as they were in the prime of their vehicle's reproductive age.
How did drugs fit into this? You mentioned using psychedelics. Were they ever a temptation for you or others?
Swyody – I'm not sure how much of an issue it was for those who stayed long-term, but in early 1976, after nine months of public meetings, we were gathered in Wyoming. Ti and Do found out that some people were still using marijuana and having sex, even though we were supposed to avoid that. My friend Ron, who I joined with in Newport, Oregon, was one of those who still used. Ti and Do addressed the issue, saying that having a clear mind was essential to being a student in the classroom. After that, some people left. Some lost contact, but a few made their way back. The topic came up again when I received a book called I Can’t Believe That But You Must. Ti initially thought that recreational drug use, like LSD, could help open people's minds, but she crossed that out a year later during editing.
Do you think your own use of LSD and other psychedelics helped prepare you for Heaven’s Gate?
Swyody – No, I don’t think it had any real effect on me. There wasn’t any logical reason why I joined. If I wanted to take a ride on a UFO, maybe psychedelics might have seemed helpful for that, but not for anything else.
Interview by Zane Olson
Illustrations by Zane Olson
Excerpt from Issue No. 2 (2021).